Rob (vision418) here.  That's right peeps, it's a Blue Jazz Revival!  It probably helps that I'm 36 hours into my vacation and bored...

So here's a questions for discussion taken from chapter 5...

Miller writes (on page 55 of my copy), "There are things you choose to believe, and beliefs that choose you.  This was one of the ones that chose me." Though Miller does not directly apply that same principle to EVERYONE's faith in Christ, he maybe implies it a little.  So my question is:

If it's a belief that chooses us, why do we try to persuade people as if it was something their minds must choose?  To put it in Christ's words- "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him," (John 6:44).  How can/should this be reflected in the way we share our faith with others?

And another question would be from page 51 (first paragraph of chapter 5)- "He is the son of God, but every time I sit down to excplain this to somebody I feel like a palm reader...or somebody at a Star Trek convention who hasn't figured out the show isn't real."  Do you ever feel like that when talking to people about your faith?  I know I do- and I do this for a living.  But when one person believes it makes up for all the weirdness I felt before.  And yet I still have doubts about their faith- like- how could anyone actually BELIEVE this stuff?  I can't help but believe- but why do they believe?

OK..ready...DISCUSS!

Ummm... I'm sitting in my Bio Lab (ignoring the lecture, as always) and I don't have the book here with me, but I really wanna see this get stirred up again....

Anybody?

Chapter 4

Here's an excerpt that I really like.  (You're welcome to go back and revisit chapter 3 if you'd like, I have no problem with that.)

"The thing I loved about Nadine was that I never felt like she was selling anything.  She would talk about God as if she knew Him, as if she had talked to Him on the phone that day.  She was never ashamed, which is the thing with some Christians I had encountered.  They felt like they had to sell God, as if He were soap or a vacuum cleaner, and it's like they really weren't listening to me; they didn't care, they just wanted me to buy their product."

I have to admit, with much shame that I have been that person.  It's easy to say that I know people like that, we all do.  But its a different story to own up to it and admit that I have been there too.  It's easy to believe that Jesus is the answer to everyone's problems (which, granted, He is) and therefore we should focus just on talking about Christ.  There are problems with that strategy though.  First, I have always believed that if you can talk someone into being a Christian, someone else can talk them out of it.  Seecond, Miller is right here.  When we talk to our non-Christian friends how often do we not *really* listen to them, but instead we try to think of things to say that would convince them that we are right?  I think it's legitimate to say that sometimes people really just need a friend, someone to listen and care and be geniune with them.  Granted, yes, everyone needs Christ as well.  I will never stop sharing the Gospel, as long as I have breath.  But I think that there needs to be more.

Consider the following thought: If the only thing people needed was Christ alone, we wouldn't have churches.  If just simply believing in Jesus made everything all better, then more people would respond to mass mailings and tracts and such.  But we are relational creatures.  We want to be known, heard, understood.  I think that "friendship evangelism" really is the only way to see lives truly changed.  It's messy, it's hard, it takes investment,a and you often go years and years without seeing change.  But the end fruit is typically stronger than knocking on doors or street witnessing.  When I look back on the people that have made a difference in my walk it has been people that invested in me.  Consider this story from my high school years:

Our youth group was a typical youth group, going through youth pastors and adult leaders like crazy.  So my sophomore year was coming to a close when we met Tom and Mitzy.  They had just started attending our church and wanted to be involved.  It took a lot for me or my best friend to trust leaders, but we gave Tom a shot because he was cool.  One Sunday Molly and I stopped by to hang out with them.  Mitzy was out shopping with the kids, and Tom was watching the Super Bowl.  (I swear, Molly and I didn't even know it was Super Bowl Sunday.)  Well, Tom turned off the Super Bowl and played a game of horse with Molly and me.  That's right, one of the biggest sports nuts I know, and he felt that investing in us, earning our trust, was more important than a football game, even if it was the biggest game of the year.  Tom and Mitzy became like parents to Molly and me, and we all keep in touch.  I don't know if anything has ever meant as much to me as that day, though. 

Sharing Christ often entails sharing your life.  It's a messy, time consuming process.  It is, however, one of the most valid and rewarding things you can do with your time, in my opinion.  Thoughts?

I want to make a quick comment about something I find hilarious about chapter 3, and that I laugh at everytime I read it.  Miller is talking about being younger and on a date to see Romeo and Juliet.  He says:

Two girls in front of us were talking to each oother.  One of them threw her arms in the air and cried out, "I wish I could know love like Romeo and Juliet". 

I couldn't take it anymore.  I whspered under my breath, "They're dead."

He didn't think anyone heard him but a few (including his date) did.  She got all pissy and stuff.  But here's the thing: I would have either A, said the same thing, or 2. laughed if someone else had said that.

Again, not very spiritual thoughts, but I found it funny.  We  can now return to the actual stuff  we're here to talk about.

On the next page Miller says this:

Everybody wants to be fancy and new.  Nobody wants to be themselves.  I mean, maybe people want to be themselves, but they want to be different, with different clothes or shorter hair or less fat.  It's a fact.  If there was a guy who just liked being himself and didn't want to be anybody else, that guy would be the most different guy in the world and everyone would want to be him.

I think Miller is right.  I'm expecting the "I think he's wrong" responses. but I think at the core of things we really do want to change things, even if it's just a little here and there.  There are certainly things I want to change about me, from my weight to some elements of my past to my current financial situation... 

Thoughts?  (This was Heather, by the way.)